6 comments

  • Sharlin 1 hour ago
    A very funny and informative book review of Gilgamesh (based on Andrew George’s 2003 edition/translation) by a guest author was recently published at Astral Codex Ten: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/your-book-review-the-epic-o...

    Recommended reading for anyone interested in knowing more about the work.

    • adrian_b 1 hour ago
      Yes, that book review seems pretty good.

      However, I do not like that it, like most other comments that provide only partial information about Gilgamesh, fails to mention some details that I consider culturally relevant.

      For instance, it lists only 3 benefits of civilization with which the wild man is lured to leave his former life: professional women, eating bread & drinking beer.

      I fact, the Gilgamesh epic lists 4 benefits of civilization, the 4th being the pleasure of being massaged with oil (apparently sesame oil is meant, presumably flavored).

      In the antiquity, vegetable oil had only a minor role as food, its principal application was for massage, normally as perfumed oil. Massage with oil was a very widespread practice, even among the relatively poor.

      The technologies of oil extraction, of milling flour, of making bread and of making beer by fermentation, were indeed major advantages of the settled people living on agriculture, in comparison with hunter-gatherers.

      Most comments about Gilgamesh list only the first 3 benefits of civilization, because those are the most easy to understand for modern readers. Massage with oil is much less used today, so many modern readers do not realize that by the time of Gilgamesh (and also millennia later, e.g. in the Roman Empire, where it was still the main use of olive oil) it was considered a pleasure as important as eating and drinking.

  • boonzeet 1 hour ago
    It was also interesting learning about the role of Poet Laureate, and the stipend. £5,750 per annum, and a barrel of Sherry; the latter being a tradition since 1630.

    I love these small slivers of old traditions that are kept up into the modern day.

  • busssard 1 hour ago
    There is a free Translation by another Author from 1924:

    https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/epic-of-gilgamesh-ebook.htm...

    • TFNA 1 hour ago
      One isn't well served by something that old. Our knowledge of Akkadian (and the Sumerian predeccesor) has improved since the early twentieth century, as your very link notes. Some Akkadian hapaxes in Gilgamesh that baffled early translators can now be read on the basis of comparative Semitic or other work.

      If you want a free translation online of a great work of literature, you don't have to limit yourself to old public-domain stuff. The shadow libraries will have more recent editions.

  • teruakohatu 3 hours ago
    I have been wanting to read it. Is this the translation/interpretation I should start with?
  • thaumasiotes 1 hour ago
    > Armitage wisely avoids rhyme, unlike some recent versions – there is no evidence of rhyme in the original text

    No rhyme in the original doesn't mean there should be no rhyme in the English. Akkadian and English are different languages. English verse rhymes.

    • TFNA 1 hour ago
      A significant portion of the English canon of verse doesn't rhyme, from most of Shakespeare to Milton (the latter who called rhyme "the invention of a barbarous age"), from the Anglo-Saxon era all the way to the twentieth century.
      • frogulis 1 hour ago
        Amusing how similar our comments are :) though yours is better, I think.
    • frogulis 1 hour ago
      > English verse rhymes

      That is not universally true at all. For example, Milton's Paradise Lost, or much of Shakespeare. There are countless other examples of blank verse in English.

      • adrian_b 59 minutes ago
        In older poetry, rhyme, i.e. the periodicity of verse terminations, had little or no importance.

        What mattered was the periodicity of rhythm, i.e. the periodicity of intonation patterns, stress patterns and length patterns, similarly as for music.

  • metalman 2 hours ago
    no mention of this bieng an actual translation from the original sumerian in any of the reviews, and the truely epic and laudable journey that is bieng replaced by the sleezy term 'verse translation', ie : hollywood sceen play ready, as that is what could be the most that can be expected from a former probation officer turned the official british royal panegrist.

    edit: the songs of innana and other older actual translations of gilgamesh are there for some little peeks into the sumerian world that continues to define ours in so many subtle ways.

    edit, edit: before commenting I did a fairly decent search for any details on this 'book' , of which nothing that I found written in plain text offered anything other than the standard devious prevercations found when some politico/legalistic thing is bieng floated. And I can state with absolute certitude that this 'translation/rewrite' of Gilgamesh will not age well even in the tiny demographic it is aimed at and will go further out on the limb and suggest that this 'work' will soon be evaluated and found to contain certain 'isms' from some of the one name only agregators of our literary present.

    • mattjhall 47 minutes ago
      > as that is what could be the most that can be expected from a former probation officer turned the official british royal panegrist.

      In a Britain where it’s harder than it has been for fifty years to be from a working/middle-class background and make it in the arts, I think it’s great that a polytechnic graduate, former probation officer is the poet laureate.

    • bengillies 2 hours ago
      > no mention of this bieng an actual translation from the original sumerian in any of the reviews

      He states very clearly in his introduction what the scope is, how it's being translated and the problems with both translating ancient text from unfamiliar cultures and translating a work that's only partially complete and how he's approached both issues

      • TFNA 2 hours ago
        Loads of "translators" not trained in the original language have written Introductions where they state such things. That doesn't mean their defense of their enterprise holds water. There are a few translations out there by Armitage's forebears that ought to be seen purely as representative of their own poetry instead of an actual translation of a classic work.

        Still, one has to give a pseudotranslator credit for admitting their method, unlike in famous cases like Stephen Mitchell or Coleman Barks where the edition doesn't even note that the supposed translator has no background in the field.

        • StreamingPanda 2 hours ago
          Armitage is pretty good at this. I've read his Green Knight and King Arthur stuff. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until after I've read it.
        • inglor_cz 17 minutes ago
          I would argue than no one is really competent in a language that has been dead and unused for millennia.

          The entire cultural context of that society and work is gone and we have but a few shards thereof.